Warwick Mop - Page 8

Toad · 19-10-2007, 04:21 PM

Well what did you expect?! One of the moppers when in to a sandwich shop at lunchtime and called the guy who runs it a 'frog' because he is Portuguese. They are so rude and they can't even work out the difference between Portuguese and French!
As for getting in to the town, ask me next year and I will get you a pass - then they HAVE to let you in.
Yes, I saw Seb too - what a waste of a policeman - and our town centre manager spent the day tying signs to lampposts. Why are we paying him to promote this rubbish, not his fault but it is a disgrace.
Keep cheerful!

chillitt · 19-10-2007, 08:49 PM

I'd like to see this charter. I'd like to see the certificate of public liability insurance for the mop, and I'd quite like to see what qualifications the chaps who put the rides together have. I'd quite like to see a representative of the council and the Showmans guild wandering round incase there are any problems. But mostly, I just want to see a week monday....

Madhatter · 21-10-2007, 05:01 AM

Atherstone dickens evening November 24th, fair, lights switch on North end of the town centre where the event is held and mine in Welcome street and south Long Street.food, charity tat stalls, crafts in the memorial hall. Big fireworks display to finish.

21-10-2007, 03:39 PM

To answer your question regarding qualifications, showmen have had a lifetime of experience to call on when it comes to building up the rides; many of them will have been doing it since before either of you were born. Their father, their father’s father and so on before them will have done it and passed down the skills. Showmen have a very rich heritage and, although only in town for two weeks, very close ties with the town. Many will have visited Warwick for the first time in their prams and continued to visit annually throughout their lives. I would lay odds that many of the showmen have closer ties with the town than some of the shopkeepers here today.

I personally feel accusing the showmen of being racist is very rude and a sign of how extreme your views are. Some of your comments previously on this website could be considered insulting to the travelling community, a race themselves. I do not wish to be confrontational so I will leave others reading this to form their own views, but personally it has changed my opinion of you greatly.

You may also be interested to note that the slang name for two of the rides at the Mop this year is a ‘frog’. It acquired this name amongst showmen because the earliest models had a giant fibre glass frog in the centre and the up and down motion resembled the children’s game of leap frog. So it may be possible that you have ‘jumped’ to a conclusion through a misunderstanding as one of the rides was located outside a café.

Just to return briefly to an earlier point about Warwick shopkeepers not moaning all the time. This is not the case, it reached such a level in the summer that a local newspaper held an online poll entitled ‘do Warwick shopkeepers moan too much?’ or words to that effect. I found the results from those that voted most amusing!

If I were in your position I would be afraid that I would look silly if I arranged to make a delivery at my shop at a time when I knew the Mop was setting up. I would be worried what conclusions people would form about me if I were to do something like that having so publicly stated my dislike of the event. I think I’d be afraid it would look a deliberate attempt to make a fuss which would damage my cause, especially after the vast amount of publicity and colourful posters this year to advertise the dates and times.

Optrex, stick to your beliefs, if you want to come to the Mop and experience it for yourself don’t let Toad or anyone else put you off. There is still the runaway mop next week if you are free. Likewise don’t let my earlier comments about the Victorian Evening being a shadow of its former self put you off coming to that either. People should be allowed to make their own decisions.

The traditional opening yesterday, where the town mayor, town crier and council officials arrive in their traditional garb (or ‘fancy dress’ as the Chamber of Trade rudely dismisses the town’s heritage in their newsletter) was a great success. A huge cheer from the assembled crowds was heard when informed the Mop would remain in the town centre for years to come. I also share the belief of those at the opening that the shopkeepers flooded out this year have a problem; the Mop is only a temporary inconvenience to those who dislike it. However, most shops were open as usual (including those that have claimed on this website to shut) and a number stayed open into the evening.

Walking around the town the main thing I saw was families having a fantastic time which brought back many happy childhood memories for me when my relations came from as far away as London for the event. This is really what the Mop is about, the community, everyone having a good time with their family, not four days profits or carrying your stock a bit further to your shop.

Finally, good one Chillit ….lets hold Warwick’s oldest tradition the far side of Leamington….can’t see any flaws with that, can anyone else? :O)

Toad · 21-10-2007, 04:43 PM

I was not accusing anyone of being racist but when you hear 'Oy, Frog, are you going to serve me?' it does make you wonder.
As for the deliveries. Many of us have deliveries from not only this country but also abroad. I'm afraid telling carriers that they cannot deliver because the town is shut just makes them laugh. This year we have had a consignment redelivered - and it is going to cost us £250. Will the mop or the council reimburse us - not a chance!
I have never heard anyone say the mop should be abolished - everyone who gave evidence to the ill-fated 'review' wanted it to be relocated or made smaller in the town. Funny how the majority were ignored, including the councils own advisors!
Anyway, glad you are enjoying it but by contrast our regular customers (almost all locals) wave us a cheery goodbye as the mop arrives and say 'see you in couple of weeks'. There is no profit during the mop just more expense for everyone for which we get no compensation.
Perhaps all these people who like it so much would like it outside their front door - we should try it.

cathidaw · 21-10-2007, 07:41 PM

How many more 'definitions' of the word racist are we to hear?
Are the showmen really a race apart? A different way of life -yes, but if they have been here in this country and in this business for generations , surely they are British ,the same as the rest of us.
But, oh no- not the same- times change, people change, but not these people who expect things to stay the same with all of the concessions they have always had since the charter was written, no matter how hard it makes life for other people, meaning business people, where 3 or 4 days closing could be a desperate situation.
It is so easy to bandy the word 'racist' about when things are not agreeable.
Am I racist because I dont like dogs, or betting shops,or people who wear purple tights, or trainers with a suit?
I believe the Charter needs looking at to see how much it fits in with our lives today- definately not getting rid of - but adapting.

s

chillitt · 21-10-2007, 08:59 PM

Mop fan,I arranged my delivery to be outside the times posted on the letter sent to all the shops by the town centre manager, But the mop closed all the roads 2 hours early.
My shop was closed on saturday afternoon and will be next week. the conditions this year were better than last year (see, not all moans..

) but it's still not worth being there.

Lets see, a fair on a purpose built ground, with all amenities laid on, and a load of park and ride buses just handy, or pilling into an already busy town centre so not even a bike could have got into the market place, let alone a fire engine..
Oh, and while you are here, Mopfan, have you found a copy of the charter yet? I notice that the rides that cannot move because they are held by different families as you said previously, have managed to come to some agreement about moving some rides around, is that allowed in this 'charter'?

And nice to know the only qualification required to build rides is' My dad did it.' Very reasurring....

oldest tradition???

One point I will agree with you on, is go and have a look for yourselves, take pictures, and make you own minds up.

Toad · 21-10-2007, 09:27 PM

Chillit, all the charter says is that there can be a mop IF the local coundil (ie. our representatives) agree to it. The local council owns the rights to mount a mop and, if they want one, it should be put out to tender (which it isn't, which is illegal) and the showmans guild have no more right to mount the mop than you or me.
The whole thing is a farce, especially as the showmans guild is now trying to stop us having a bus station. Our local councils are terrified of these people and we are the ones that suffer.
If you really want a few sleepless nights request the charter and the mop review notes under the freedom of information act - you will be amazed at what has been swept under the carpet!

chillitt · 21-10-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

If you really want a few sleepless nights request the charter and the mop review notes under the freedom of information act - you will be amazed at what has been swept under the carpet!

Do you know I just might do that....
As a matter of interest, once information has been 'freed' can I do what I like with it, Like publishing it, as a leaflet?

Toad · 21-10-2007, 10:11 PM

Yes, it's in the public domain and you can do as you wish. Contact Warwick District Council's amenities department, ask for Ian Coker. Or ask Adrian Field, our town centre manager. Either will arrange for all the relevant documents to be copied to you. Ask for a copy of the charter, the legal opinion that was obtained about the status of the mop and the mop review notes. Settle back with a bottle of wine - and be amazed at how we have been conned!!

Madhatter · 22-10-2007, 03:02 AM

Racism, qualifications, charters blah blah blah. If its a new ride they're going to get training from the ride manufacturer, they need to know how the thing goes together, safety checks, maintenance program. Have you any idea how much new rides actually cost?
They then show others how to do, that the equivalent of an apprenticeship.
FACT these rides are safer than Alton Towers, they are checked as they are set up, Alton Towers are checked once a year. For example... A bolt on a ride is wearing, on a travelling fair its spotted as its set up and replaced, at Alton towers it's not spotted for a year, that's if it's spotted at all. On a travelling fair people with years of experience are running these rides, or at the very least nearby. At Alton towers it's mostly seasonal jobs, they have little experience and little interest in the job they do, it's a job not a livelihood.

Criticising what just isn't true isn't going to fix the problems. Why don't you find out through the correct channels why you wasn't allowed in when you should have had access. A road closure is a legal thing, it's illegal to close or obstruct a road without authority to do so. The order should say when it starts and finishes.

chillitt · 22-10-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter

Criticising what just isn't true isn't going to fix the problems. Why don't you find out through the correct channels why you wasn't allowed in when you should have had access. A road closure is a legal thing, it's illegal to close or obstruct a road without authority to do so. The order should say when it starts and finishes.

when there is a psco standing by the 'blockade' saying 'We have handed the town over now, there's nothing we can do..etc' then it knock my faith in the authorities..
As for The Correct Channels, who would you suggest? no one is prepared to stand up and say 'We run this,' and involve the locals at all.

Toad · 26-10-2007, 09:45 PM

Why would they want to involve the locals - far too simple!
Never mind, they are gone tomorrow and we can count the cost and get on with our lives.

chillitt · 26-10-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

Why would they want to involve the locals - far too simple!
Never mind, they are gone tomorrow and we can count the cost and get on with our lives.

Just as long as they don't wipe out anymore lamp posts, and turn the towns electricity off again on the way out...

27-10-2007, 10:05 AM

I have been informed the town centre has had a number of power cuts this year and I was there when yesterdays happened. As the lights went out and the alarms sounded the showman I was talking to remarked 'I wonder how long it will be before we get the blame for this?'. I guess now I can inform him it was less than twelve hours afterwards and that my prediction of it being an 'unnamed' shopkeeper was correct.

Its a shame the mop is the only thing leaving town today!

27-10-2007, 01:31 PM

With one phone call to the electricity supplier, it was possible to ascertain that the power cut was caused by a cable fault on an over head pylon out of town. This fault knocked out the supply to just over three thousand properties.

Is this just becoming a case of you blaming the mop for everything, however unrelated or fictitious it may be?

21-10-2007, 05:01 AM	#115 (permalink)
Madhatter Chatterbox Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Atherstone Posts: 412	Atherstone dickens evening November 24th, fair, lights switch on North end of the town centre where the event is held and mine in Welcome street and south Long Street.food, charity tat stalls, crafts in the memorial hall. Big fireworks display to finish. __________________ Madhatter

21-10-2007, 07:41 PM	#118 (permalink)
cathidaw Community Senior Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Exhall Posts: 692	How many more 'definitions' of the word racist are we to hear? Are the showmen really a race apart? A different way of life -yes, but if they have been here in this country and in this business for generations , surely they are British ,the same as the rest of us. But, oh no- not the same- times change, people change, but not these people who expect things to stay the same with all of the concessions they have always had since the charter was written, no matter how hard it makes life for other people, meaning business people, where 3 or 4 days closing could be a desperate situation. It is so easy to bandy the word 'racist' about when things are not agreeable. Am I racist because I dont like dogs, or betting shops,or people who wear purple tights, or trainers with a suit? I believe the Charter needs looking at to see how much it fits in with our lives today- definately not getting rid of - but adapting. s Last edited by cathidaw; 21-10-2007 at 07:47 PM.

22-10-2007, 03:02 AM	#123 (permalink)
Madhatter Chatterbox Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Atherstone Posts: 412	Racism, qualifications, charters blah blah blah. If its a new ride they're going to get training from the ride manufacturer, they need to know how the thing goes together, safety checks, maintenance program. Have you any idea how much new rides actually cost? They then show others how to do, that the equivalent of an apprenticeship. FACT these rides are safer than Alton Towers, they are checked as they are set up, Alton Towers are checked once a year. For example... A bolt on a ride is wearing, on a travelling fair its spotted as its set up and replaced, at Alton towers it's not spotted for a year, that's if it's spotted at all. On a travelling fair people with years of experience are running these rides, or at the very least nearby. At Alton towers it's mostly seasonal jobs, they have little experience and little interest in the job they do, it's a job not a livelihood. Criticising what just isn't true isn't going to fix the problems. Why don't you find out through the correct channels why you wasn't allowed in when you should have had access. A road closure is a legal thing, it's illegal to close or obstruct a road without authority to do so. The order should say when it starts and finishes. __________________ Madhatter

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19-10-2007, 04:21 PM	#113 (permalink)
Toad Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwick Posts: 62	Well what did you expect?! One of the moppers when in to a sandwich shop at lunchtime and called the guy who runs it a 'frog' because he is Portuguese. They are so rude and they can't even work out the difference between Portuguese and French! As for getting in to the town, ask me next year and I will get you a pass - then they HAVE to let you in. Yes, I saw Seb too - what a waste of a policeman - and our town centre manager spent the day tying signs to lampposts. Why are we paying him to promote this rubbish, not his fault but it is a disgrace. Keep cheerful!

19-10-2007, 08:49 PM	#114 (permalink)
chillitt Running on empty Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: warwick Posts: 473	I'd like to see this charter. I'd like to see the certificate of public liability insurance for the mop, and I'd quite like to see what qualifications the chaps who put the rides together have. I'd quite like to see a representative of the council and the Showmans guild wandering round incase there are any problems. But mostly, I just want to see a week monday....

21-10-2007, 03:39 PM	#116 (permalink)
Mop Fan Guest Posts: n/a	To answer your question regarding qualifications, showmen have had a lifetime of experience to call on when it comes to building up the rides; many of them will have been doing it since before either of you were born. Their father, their father’s father and so on before them will have done it and passed down the skills. Showmen have a very rich heritage and, although only in town for two weeks, very close ties with the town. Many will have visited Warwick for the first time in their prams and continued to visit annually throughout their lives. I would lay odds that many of the showmen have closer ties with the town than some of the shopkeepers here today. I personally feel accusing the showmen of being racist is very rude and a sign of how extreme your views are. Some of your comments previously on this website could be considered insulting to the travelling community, a race themselves. I do not wish to be confrontational so I will leave others reading this to form their own views, but personally it has changed my opinion of you greatly. You may also be interested to note that the slang name for two of the rides at the Mop this year is a ‘frog’. It acquired this name amongst showmen because the earliest models had a giant fibre glass frog in the centre and the up and down motion resembled the children’s game of leap frog. So it may be possible that you have ‘jumped’ to a conclusion through a misunderstanding as one of the rides was located outside a café. Just to return briefly to an earlier point about Warwick shopkeepers not moaning all the time. This is not the case, it reached such a level in the summer that a local newspaper held an online poll entitled ‘do Warwick shopkeepers moan too much?’ or words to that effect. I found the results from those that voted most amusing! If I were in your position I would be afraid that I would look silly if I arranged to make a delivery at my shop at a time when I knew the Mop was setting up. I would be worried what conclusions people would form about me if I were to do something like that having so publicly stated my dislike of the event. I think I’d be afraid it would look a deliberate attempt to make a fuss which would damage my cause, especially after the vast amount of publicity and colourful posters this year to advertise the dates and times. Optrex, stick to your beliefs, if you want to come to the Mop and experience it for yourself don’t let Toad or anyone else put you off. There is still the runaway mop next week if you are free. Likewise don’t let my earlier comments about the Victorian Evening being a shadow of its former self put you off coming to that either. People should be allowed to make their own decisions. The traditional opening yesterday, where the town mayor, town crier and council officials arrive in their traditional garb (or ‘fancy dress’ as the Chamber of Trade rudely dismisses the town’s heritage in their newsletter) was a great success. A huge cheer from the assembled crowds was heard when informed the Mop would remain in the town centre for years to come. I also share the belief of those at the opening that the shopkeepers flooded out this year have a problem; the Mop is only a temporary inconvenience to those who dislike it. However, most shops were open as usual (including those that have claimed on this website to shut) and a number stayed open into the evening. Walking around the town the main thing I saw was families having a fantastic time which brought back many happy childhood memories for me when my relations came from as far away as London for the event. This is really what the Mop is about, the community, everyone having a good time with their family, not four days profits or carrying your stock a bit further to your shop. Finally, good one Chillit ….lets hold Warwick’s oldest tradition the far side of Leamington….can’t see any flaws with that, can anyone else? :O)

21-10-2007, 04:43 PM	#117 (permalink)
Toad Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwick Posts: 62	I was not accusing anyone of being racist but when you hear 'Oy, Frog, are you going to serve me?' it does make you wonder. As for the deliveries. Many of us have deliveries from not only this country but also abroad. I'm afraid telling carriers that they cannot deliver because the town is shut just makes them laugh. This year we have had a consignment redelivered - and it is going to cost us £250. Will the mop or the council reimburse us - not a chance! I have never heard anyone say the mop should be abolished - everyone who gave evidence to the ill-fated 'review' wanted it to be relocated or made smaller in the town. Funny how the majority were ignored, including the councils own advisors! Anyway, glad you are enjoying it but by contrast our regular customers (almost all locals) wave us a cheery goodbye as the mop arrives and say 'see you in couple of weeks'. There is no profit during the mop just more expense for everyone for which we get no compensation. Perhaps all these people who like it so much would like it outside their front door - we should try it.

21-10-2007, 08:59 PM	#119 (permalink)
chillitt Running on empty Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: warwick Posts: 473	Mop fan,I arranged my delivery to be outside the times posted on the letter sent to all the shops by the town centre manager, But the mop closed all the roads 2 hours early. My shop was closed on saturday afternoon and will be next week. the conditions this year were better than last year (see, not all moans.. ) but it's still not worth being there. Lets see, a fair on a purpose built ground, with all amenities laid on, and a load of park and ride buses just handy, or pilling into an already busy town centre so not even a bike could have got into the market place, let alone a fire engine.. Oh, and while you are here, Mopfan, have you found a copy of the charter yet? I notice that the rides that cannot move because they are held by different families as you said previously, have managed to come to some agreement about moving some rides around, is that allowed in this 'charter'? And nice to know the only qualification required to build rides is' My dad did it.' Very reasurring.... oldest tradition??? One point I will agree with you on, is go and have a look for yourselves, take pictures, and make you own minds up.

21-10-2007, 09:27 PM	#120 (permalink)
Toad Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwick Posts: 62	Chillit, all the charter says is that there can be a mop IF the local coundil (ie. our representatives) agree to it. The local council owns the rights to mount a mop and, if they want one, it should be put out to tender (which it isn't, which is illegal) and the showmans guild have no more right to mount the mop than you or me. The whole thing is a farce, especially as the showmans guild is now trying to stop us having a bus station. Our local councils are terrified of these people and we are the ones that suffer. If you really want a few sleepless nights request the charter and the mop review notes under the freedom of information act - you will be amazed at what has been swept under the carpet!

21-10-2007, 10:11 PM	#122 (permalink)
Toad Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwick Posts: 62	Yes, it's in the public domain and you can do as you wish. Contact Warwick District Council's amenities department, ask for Ian Coker. Or ask Adrian Field, our town centre manager. Either will arrange for all the relevant documents to be copied to you. Ask for a copy of the charter, the legal opinion that was obtained about the status of the mop and the mop review notes. Settle back with a bottle of wine - and be amazed at how we have been conned!!

26-10-2007, 09:45 PM	#125 (permalink)
Toad Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Warwick Posts: 62	Why would they want to involve the locals - far too simple! Never mind, they are gone tomorrow and we can count the cost and get on with our lives.

27-10-2007, 10:05 AM	#127 (permalink)
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	I have been informed the town centre has had a number of power cuts this year and I was there when yesterdays happened. As the lights went out and the alarms sounded the showman I was talking to remarked 'I wonder how long it will be before we get the blame for this?'. I guess now I can inform him it was less than twelve hours afterwards and that my prediction of it being an 'unnamed' shopkeeper was correct. Its a shame the mop is the only thing leaving town today!

27-10-2007, 01:31 PM	#128 (permalink)
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	With one phone call to the electricity supplier, it was possible to ascertain that the power cut was caused by a cable fault on an over head pylon out of town. This fault knocked out the supply to just over three thousand properties. Is this just becoming a case of you blaming the mop for everything, however unrelated or fictitious it may be?