Why is "world-class Stratford-upon-Avon" such a dump? - Page 2

Mari · 24-02-2008, 01:22 PM

Dare I say this Cathidaw,

The problem is that Coventry ,like so many other parts of this country has completely lost touch with its Christian and historical heritage.

Its no wonder that there is no vision, because it seems today's society has no vision. Isn't it Spon St. that stands like a Jewel in Coventry's heritage ? because almost miraculously , it has retained its Elizabethan buildings.

Coventry today is a monument to everything that went wrong in this country in the 60's , and we are still living with it.

I like your comment about ASBO's............

.

cathidaw · 25-02-2008, 01:45 AM

thanks mari
re the jewel in the crown-ie Spon Street .
Did you know that most of those medieval buildings were moved there from other parts of Coventry brick by brick and beam by beam. Someone after the war--- during the first revamp-- decided that most of the really old buildings should be moved to one spot ie Spon Street so that they could have a clear sweep to redevelop.
They were taken down-each part numbered and stored away until they could be re-sited. Over the first few years some were rebuilt-those buildings we see now- but with different planners coming and going and finance as it was, and is now, these buildings still lie in storage-some open to the elements in a yard somewhere in the city centre.I went there once years ago on a Municipal visit but cannot remember where it is.
I do not believe that the Christian element has gone-quite the reverse in fact, but the historical aspect has gone to the dogs . There is
a lot of 'empty talk about preservation but if 'they' want something gone-it goes.
There are societies in Coventry who really try hard to get things done but they are outnumbered. Even the Coventry and District Archaeological Society have only a small voice-and Coventry has not got an archaeological unit any more .. A medieval city like this!
They use Northampton unit and others.

Lex · 25-02-2008, 10:21 AM

Could someone post some pics. of the carnage? I'm doing a world tour at the minute & won't be back in Stratford for another 3 months. I'm heartbroken just thinking about what's been done; one of my favorate ways to spend a summer weekend was to sit under one of the trees with a book.

**Shizara** · 25-02-2008, 11:33 AM

Lex, when you get to New Zealand you will find plenty of places to relax, under a tree with a book. I know there is no place like home, but you will find it a great substitute whilst you are away.

Enjoy your trip and it's great to see you popping in for a comment.

25-02-2008, 03:07 PM

So where were all you folk when the local Action Group "Stratford Voice" organised a rally on the Bancroft Gardens to try to stop it happening?...Of course as per usual only about a couple of hundred people show up and quite frankly the local district council just had a s****** at the apathy and full steam ahead..

This comment is not aimed at anyone in particular but i'm sick to death of the apathy around here and then all the whinging that goes on after the event..

If 5,000 people had shown up then just maybe, just maybe the Council would have been jolted into attention.

25-02-2008, 05:35 PM

Judging by what I've read here, and heard in general. Stratford voice are nothing more then a bunch of unorganised, mealy mouthed, time-wasters. Perhaps no one came to your little demo, because no one knew it was even happening!

Ever think of that?

25-02-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavis

Judging by what I've read here, and heard in general. Stratford voice are nothing more then a bunch of unorganised, mealy mouthed, time-wasters. Perhaps no one came to your little demo, because no one knew it was even happening!

Ever think of that?

There is of course Mavis nothing stopping you forming your own highly organised, non mealy mouthed, time efficient local action group of local people who take an interest and care deeply about what is happening in their local community

That is of course might be totally unnecessary as you may well be entirely happy with the way the various councils operate in Stratford with regards Bancroft Gardens, The Bridge, Massive housing Developments, Rounabout "Gateway developments" etc

Mari · 25-02-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So where were all you folk when the local Action Group "Stratford Voice" organised a rally on the Bancroft Gardens to try to stop it happening?...Of course as per usual only about a couple of hundred people show up and quite frankly the local district council just had a s****** at the apathy and full steam ahead..

This comment is not aimed at anyone in particular but i'm sick to death of the apathy around here and then all the whinging that goes on after the event..

If 5,000 people had shown up then just maybe, just maybe the Council would have been jolted into attention.

I was a visitor to Stratford at the time, signed the petition.
Now I have moved closer to Stratford, and take a keen interest in proposed projects for the town by SDC.

Isn't there a website for Stratford Voice ?

I have recently been informed by SDC that the decision to remove these trees had not been lightly made, and that considerable public consultation was engaged in over the last 18 months and details of the reasons why the trees have needed to be removed. 20,000 copies of leaflets have been made available briefing the public on . 'What's happening in the Bancroft Gardens.

I would be interested in the feedback the SDC had from the peopleof Stratford.

I have also been informed that the Council will shortly be replacing more trees than those removed. Most of the new trees will be semi-mature, i.e approximately 15 years old.

'

Mari · 25-02-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex

Could someone post some pics. of the carnage? I'm doing a world tour at the minute & won't be back in Stratford for another 3 months. I'm heartbroken just thinking about what's been done; one of my favorate ways to spend a summer weekend was to sit under one of the trees with a book.

Well ,it might be a bit difficult tracking you down, what with all your globe trotting. Lucky you, enjoy .

If the Stratford Herald gives coverage of events, then maybe you can access it online or something.

Mari · 25-02-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cathidaw

thanks mari
re the jewel in the crown-ie Spon Street .
Did you know that most of those medieval buildings were moved there from other parts of Coventry brick by brick and beam by beam. Someone after the war--- during the first revamp-- decided that most of the really old buildings should be moved to one spot ie Spon Street so that they could have a clear sweep to redevelop.
They were taken down-each part numbered and stored away until they could be re-sited. Over the first few years some were rebuilt-those buildings we see now- but with different planners coming and going and finance as it was, and is now, these buildings still lie in storage-some open to the elements in a yard somewhere in the city centre.I went there once years ago on a Municipal visit but cannot remember where it is.
I do not believe that the Christian element has gone-quite the reverse in fact, but the historical aspect has gone to the dogs . There is
a lot of 'empty talk about preservation but if 'they' want something gone-it goes.
There are societies in Coventry who really try hard to get things done but they are outnumbered. Even the Coventry and District Archaeological Society have only a small voice-and Coventry has not got an archaeological unit any more .. A medieval city like this!
They use Northampton unit and others.

Thanks for that Cathidaw, I never realized that.
The people that destroyed what was left of Coventry after the war, and indeed the destruction of Birmingham in the late 50's, really are beneath comtempt. It is unimaginable what the people in this country put up with.

.

cathidaw · 26-02-2008, 02:00 AM

I do not live in Coventry now -just 1 mile over the border- but I'm still fiercely a Coventry kid -or a fierce coventry kid if you like -born within the city walls - , however I keep an eye on what's going on -and even when I lived in Leamington or Wales I voiced my opinion often-usually through the Coventry Telegraph.
and so does my sister who lives in Coventry.

Dexter · 26-02-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mari

I was a visitor to Stratford at the time, signed the petition.
Now I have moved closer to Stratford, and take a keen interest in proposed projects for the town by SDC.

Isn't there a website for Stratford Voice ?

I have recently been informed by SDC that the decision to remove these trees had not been lightly made, and that considerable public consultation was engaged in over the last 18 months and details of the reasons why the trees have needed to be removed. 20,000 copies of leaflets have been made available briefing the public on . 'What's happening in the Bancroft Gardens.

I would be interested in the feedback the SDC had from the peopleof Stratford.

I have also been informed that the Council will shortly be replacing more trees than those removed. Most of the new trees will be semi-mature, i.e approximately 15 years old.

'

Hello Mari..I'm pleased to hear that you are taking a keen interest in whats going on around here.

The first thing that you should be aware of is what the council means by "Consultation".. Basically this means in their eyes distributing a leaflet or maybe holding a one day stall at Tesco normally attended by a slick talking consultant from the company they are employing at vast expense to recommend the changes..

The second part of the consultation is when local people respond and say that is not what they want THEIR council to do

The third part is when all local views are ignored...

So basically as you will find out "Consultation" means telling the local people what is going to happen and ignoring their views on it.

With regards the Bancroft Gardens..I can honestly say that I cannot find one single person in the vicinity of where I live that is in agreement with what has happened.

Yes some of the trees were apprently diseased but not all of them..What is obvious is that the reason the majority have been removed is so they do not obscur the view of the Theatre when the changes are completed..I suspect many of these "diseased" trees could have been treated if necessary but of course the whole thing is rather "convenient"

You will also see shortly that the lovely little canal bridge right by the Bancroft basin will be ripped out. This bridge was restored by prisoners at Wormwood Scrubs and re opened by the Queen Mother in 1964..Again this ornate bridge was much loved by the people of this town and we tried to get this stopped too..We were ignored..

Sorry to say if you live around here you will soon get to understand that the wishes of local people count for nothing

26-02-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexter

Hello Mari..I'm pleased to hear that you are taking a keen interest in whats going on around here.

The first thing that you should be aware of is what the council means by "Consultation".. Basically this means in their eyes distributing a leaflet or maybe holding a one day stall at Tesco normally attended by a slick talking consultant from the company they are employing at vast expense to recommend the changes..

The second part of the consultation is when local people respond and say that is not what they want THEIR council to do

The third part is when all local views are ignored...

So basically as you will find out "Consultation" means telling the local people what is going to happen and ignoring their views on it.

With regards the Bancroft Gardens..I can honestly say that I cannot find one single person in the vicinity of where I live that is in agreement with what has happened.

Yes some of the trees were apprently diseased but not all of them..What is obvious is that the reason the majority have been removed is so they do not obscur the view of the Theatre when the changes are completed..I suspect many of these "diseased" trees could have been treated if necessary but of course the whole thing is rather "convenient"

You will also see shortly that the lovely little canal bridge right by the Bancroft basin will be ripped out. This bridge was restored by prisoners at Wormwood Scrubs and re opened by the Queen Mother in 1964..Again this ornate bridge was much loved by the people of this town and we tried to get this stopped too..We were ignored..

Sorry to say if you live around here you will soon get to understand that the wishes of local people count for nothing

Thanks Dexter,

I am sure you know a lot more than I do about the situation, I just quoted what the Council told me. I know it was the RSC that wanted the trees cleared as they said they obscured the view of the Theatre. Well, who wants to look at that horrible new design with that hideous tower. Believe me, I have no faith in the SDC whatsoever ! They insult our intelligence when they fob us of with their deceit and lies ! I think the Council would have been stuffed if all the residents of Stratford refused to pay their Council tax in protest , then perhaps they would have listened.
Isn't it just Sod's law, we have been visiting Stratford Upon Avon for the last 20 years, and now we move this way, everything is changing.

It is sad to hear about the dear little canal bridge. I wonder what Prince Charles has to say in the matter. Apparently I heard that he has received at least a hundred letters protesting about the ripping out of Bancroft Gardens and the hideous changes to the theatre, and has summoned Noble to discuss matters with him. But what good can come from that now, the dirty deed has been done.

,

Mari · 26-02-2008, 02:21 PM

Sorry I forgot to log in .

Mari

Mari · 26-02-2008, 04:50 PM

I came across this old news from the Guardian.uk

The Royal Shakespeare Company's controversial plan to demolish its Stratford playhouse and build a £100m riverside "theatre village" was unanimously approved by a committee of MPs yesterday, giving a much needed boost to the beleaguered artistic director, Adrian Noble.
Ignoring criticism by traditionalists - among them Prince Charles who has warned against a "modern and horrible" new development - MPs on the media and culture select committee, led by Gerald Kaufman, said change was necessary. They said the 70-year-old grade II listed Royal Shakespeare Theatre offered "neanderthal conditions" unable to do Shakespeare justice.

The committee found the art deco venue would no longer comply with statutory requirements, such as disabled access and safety rules, by 2004.

MPs said they understood the RSC's complaints that the building was unsafe, that those with cheaper tickets had appalling views and that provisions for disabled theatregoers were inadequate.

Plans for the new complex will be revealed this summer and will include a theatre, a venue to replace the Other Place, and various exhibitions and educational initiatives as part of a themed village that will build on the three million visitors to Stratford each year. Only 600,000 of those visitors buy tickets to RSC plays and the company feels more needs to be done to attract them in "daylight hours".

Veteran actor Sir Michael Gambon believes the changes are unnecessary and many others have shuddered at the idea of a Warwickshire "Shakespeareland", something the RSC assured critics it had no plans for.

At least Prince Charles is on our side.

Lex · 27-02-2008, 06:26 AM

There seems to be little point in protesting on issues, as the local councils just ignore what's being said (unless, of course, what people say agrees with what the council says). The words 'vested interests' comes to mind.
One occasion which runs contrary to this is SDC's opposition o the new footbridge, a stance which I support (and most Stratfordians too, I'd imagine!) Unfortunately, WCC seem to have hijacked the project and are pushing it through on the quiet. They are/have been holding a second 'consulataion' with selected local groups, which - surprise, surprise - are supportive of the bridge.

25-02-2008, 11:33 AM	#20 (permalink)
Shizara Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nuneaton Posts: 1,229	Lex, when you get to New Zealand you will find plenty of places to relax, under a tree with a book. I know there is no place like home, but you will find it a great substitute whilst you are away. Enjoy your trip and it's great to see you popping in for a comment. __________________ Cool

26-02-2008, 04:50 PM	#31 (permalink)
Mari Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 98	Prince Charles, against moder and horrible new devopment I came across this old news from the Guardian.uk The Royal Shakespeare Company's controversial plan to demolish its Stratford playhouse and build a £100m riverside "theatre village" was unanimously approved by a committee of MPs yesterday, giving a much needed boost to the beleaguered artistic director, Adrian Noble. Ignoring criticism by traditionalists - among them Prince Charles who has warned against a "modern and horrible" new development - MPs on the media and culture select committee, led by Gerald Kaufman, said change was necessary. They said the 70-year-old grade II listed Royal Shakespeare Theatre offered "neanderthal conditions" unable to do Shakespeare justice. The committee found the art deco venue would no longer comply with statutory requirements, such as disabled access and safety rules, by 2004. MPs said they understood the RSC's complaints that the building was unsafe, that those with cheaper tickets had appalling views and that provisions for disabled theatregoers were inadequate. Plans for the new complex will be revealed this summer and will include a theatre, a venue to replace the Other Place, and various exhibitions and educational initiatives as part of a themed village that will build on the three million visitors to Stratford each year. Only 600,000 of those visitors buy tickets to RSC plays and the company feels more needs to be done to attract them in "daylight hours". Veteran actor Sir Michael Gambon believes the changes are unnecessary and many others have shuddered at the idea of a Warwickshire "Shakespeareland", something the RSC assured critics it had no plans for. At least Prince Charles is on our side.

24-02-2008, 01:22 PM	#17 (permalink)
Mari Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 98	Dare I say this Cathidaw, The problem is that Coventry ,like so many other parts of this country has completely lost touch with its Christian and historical heritage. Its no wonder that there is no vision, because it seems today's society has no vision. Isn't it Spon St. that stands like a Jewel in Coventry's heritage ? because almost miraculously , it has retained its Elizabethan buildings. Coventry today is a monument to everything that went wrong in this country in the 60's , and we are still living with it. I like your comment about ASBO's............ .

25-02-2008, 01:45 AM	#18 (permalink)
cathidaw Community Senior Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Exhall Posts: 670	thanks mari re the jewel in the crown-ie Spon Street . Did you know that most of those medieval buildings were moved there from other parts of Coventry brick by brick and beam by beam. Someone after the war--- during the first revamp-- decided that most of the really old buildings should be moved to one spot ie Spon Street so that they could have a clear sweep to redevelop. They were taken down-each part numbered and stored away until they could be re-sited. Over the first few years some were rebuilt-those buildings we see now- but with different planners coming and going and finance as it was, and is now, these buildings still lie in storage-some open to the elements in a yard somewhere in the city centre.I went there once years ago on a Municipal visit but cannot remember where it is. I do not believe that the Christian element has gone-quite the reverse in fact, but the historical aspect has gone to the dogs . There is a lot of 'empty talk about preservation but if 'they' want something gone-it goes. There are societies in Coventry who really try hard to get things done but they are outnumbered. Even the Coventry and District Archaeological Society have only a small voice-and Coventry has not got an archaeological unit any more .. A medieval city like this! They use Northampton unit and others.

25-02-2008, 10:21 AM	#19 (permalink)
Lex Good Grief.... Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Stratford Posts: 571	Could someone post some pics. of the carnage? I'm doing a world tour at the minute & won't be back in Stratford for another 3 months. I'm heartbroken just thinking about what's been done; one of my favorate ways to spend a summer weekend was to sit under one of the trees with a book.

25-02-2008, 03:07 PM	#21 (permalink)
Unregistered Posts: n/a	So where were all you folk when the local Action Group "Stratford Voice" organised a rally on the Bancroft Gardens to try to stop it happening?...Of course as per usual only about a couple of hundred people show up and quite frankly the local district council just had a s****** at the apathy and full steam ahead.. This comment is not aimed at anyone in particular but i'm sick to death of the apathy around here and then all the whinging that goes on after the event.. If 5,000 people had shown up then just maybe, just maybe the Council would have been jolted into attention.

25-02-2008, 05:35 PM	#22 (permalink)
Mavis Posts: n/a	Judging by what I've read here, and heard in general. Stratford voice are nothing more then a bunch of unorganised, mealy mouthed, time-wasters. Perhaps no one came to your little demo, because no one knew it was even happening! Ever think of that?

26-02-2008, 02:00 AM	#27 (permalink)
cathidaw Community Senior Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Exhall Posts: 670	I do not live in Coventry now -just 1 mile over the border- but I'm still fiercely a Coventry kid -or a fierce coventry kid if you like -born within the city walls - , however I keep an eye on what's going on -and even when I lived in Leamington or Wales I voiced my opinion often-usually through the Coventry Telegraph. and so does my sister who lives in Coventry.

26-02-2008, 02:21 PM	#30 (permalink)
Mari Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 98	Sorry I forgot to log in . Mari

27-02-2008, 06:26 AM	#32 (permalink)
Lex Good Grief.... Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Stratford Posts: 571	There seems to be little point in protesting on issues, as the local councils just ignore what's being said (unless, of course, what people say agrees with what the council says). The words 'vested interests' comes to mind. One occasion which runs contrary to this is SDC's opposition o the new footbridge, a stance which I support (and most Stratfordians too, I'd imagine!) Unfortunately, WCC seem to have hijacked the project and are pushing it through on the quiet. They are/have been holding a second 'consulataion' with selected local groups, which - surprise, surprise - are supportive of the bridge.