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Gladys
06-03-2014, 10:29 AM
I wasn't sure if a thread on this had already been started so if it has I apologise. I read this in today's Mail Online and have to say I am glad Britain's Chief Vet is voicing his opinion. I think we should follow Denmarks example. This is 2014 and we should strive for modern standards for our animal welfare and for food production. At the very least make sure humanely killed meat is marked as such and Kosher/Halal meat is labelled as such so the public can make an informed choice on what it buys. If indeed it is true that the 3 methods of killing animals were producing meat that gets mixed up together, then I find that very worrying. I don't want to eat meat that has been produced by inhumane methods. Similarly Muslim and Jewish people need to know their meat has had the requisite prayers and treatment. I am sure if any are vets they would know the slaughter methods dictated by their beliefs are inhumane. I understand that Halal meat now receives an immediate post cut stun in recognition of the suffering but this is not so for Kosher meat.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2574456/Stop-slashing-animals-throats-ritual-slaughters-halal-kosher-meat-says-new-leader-Britains-vets.html

Gladys
06-03-2014, 11:31 PM
Have I offended any one by this thread? Please answer if have. I don't mean to but just want to hear other peoples' views on this. A lot of us eat meat and me for example want to know it is treated ( in my view) humanely through its entirety.

Lex
07-03-2014, 07:54 AM
I was listening to a report about this yesterday; a rabbi maintained that the animals don't suffer as they fall in unconsciousness shortly after the incision is made. Apparently, some halal butchers have started stunning animals before slaughter though.

Gladys
07-03-2014, 09:18 AM
Well, scientifically based findings and the scientists that are the vets say they do suffer if not stunned. Who would you think should know best- the vet or the Rabbi? Halal meat is now stunned always after the throat cut is made. If they are now stunning prior to it that is even better.

rebbonk
07-03-2014, 10:42 AM
I think it barbaric the way certain religions slaughter their meat. I see no reason for it in this day and age.

Gladys
07-03-2014, 11:56 AM
Ditto - we need to follow Denmark's stance on this and do it fast.I'll look out an e-petition about it.

Please sign and share on Facebook if you have an account. So far there are only 20 signatures on this e-petition which closes on 14th March.

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/46943

Gladys
07-03-2014, 06:17 PM
This seems extreme and against a balanced decision on what meat to provide.Choice and the freedom to choose has also been taken away. It seems to me that how it is killed is what lies behind it and is entirely more for those who don't eat pork products. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2575724/Parents-fury-pork-sausages-banned-school-menu-replaced-halal-meat.html

Gladys
13-03-2014, 11:10 AM
There's no hope with this attitude reported this morning. If this is Mr C's stance on things is it reflective of the majority of the population's attitude? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2579638/I-kosher-animal-killing-says-David-Cameron-PM-says-defend-religious-slaughter-animals-Britain-trip-Israel.html

rebbonk
13-03-2014, 12:45 PM
Camoron is out of touch and deluded. If there's a band-wagon he'll jump on it, which is why he starts many things (talks about them) but finishes virtually nothing. The man is shallow, and vacuous. It's high time he realised that the UK pay his wages and expect him to look after our interests and to put the UK population and their wishes first.

Frankly, the sooner the Eton educated fool is replaced the better. Sadly, I see virtually nobody in any leadership contest that I trust, or think up to the job. - I am very undecided about Farrage, though he does seem our best bet at the moment.

Gladys
13-03-2014, 02:14 PM
I despair too but how dare he use his position to decide on this very serious matter regarding animal welfare. If Defra. the RSPCA and the Vets won't act then at the very very least I would like to see meat clearly labelled as ' humanely slaughtered ' so that I can make my own stand. How do you know an animal has been slaughtered humanely or cruelly as with the Kosher and Halal methods?. We simply don't know, meat just says ' slaughtered in Uk ' or elsewhere.
Farmers should make a stand of their own too. Most are responsible and take a keen interest in their animals' welfare to provide quality meat but may be they should take that a step further and insist their stock is dispatched in a humane manner and not allow it to provide for the Kosher or Halal markets?
Some one I know started out in pork production. She bought 6 piglets who all lived very happily in a free range organic way. When it came time to make the bacon she actively searched out by visiting different abattoirs and watching the process with her own eyes. She didn't send hers until she found one which handled the stock with calm control and consideration all to the soft sound of classical music. She also went with them so they weren't just handed over to strangers. The pork production line is still thriving on her property and she still attends their final moments.

Gladys
16-03-2014, 09:42 AM
Well done Anthony Worrell-Tompson, I wish more would adopt his stance and make sure they only source humanely slaughtered meat. I am now doubting I'll eat a burger again, have a read of this in today Mail Online. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2581918/Meat-cattle-slaughtered-cruel-kosher-ceremony-high-street-burger.html

Shizara
20-03-2014, 07:58 PM
I think that the bottom line here is meat needs to be clearly marked as to how it was slaughtered to allow consumers to choose and not have a method inflicted upon them that may conflict with beliefs or personal choices. We spend too much time walking on eggshells to make a point clear.

Gladys
21-03-2014, 12:31 AM
I wish I had copied and pasted an article on this very fact at the weekend but didn't because I didn't think people were as ' moved ' about it as I am. The article quoted from an Irish Chap who owns and runs a slaughter house in Ireland. He said they slaughter about 600 cows a week and many are by the Kosher method. He didn't mention other animals.From my memory he didn't mention the Halal process but then it is recorded that all Halal meat is stunned now after stick/slit. This is a part way improvement in my mind. Anyway, he said that only 2/3rds of the carcass is sent for the Kosher meat trade as only certain parts of the animal are deemed safe and the rest has to go somewhere- MacDonald's, Burgers etc .His words were' I am running a business here, it has to used some how.' Clear labeling is what I want- how my meat was ' treated ' as it became prepared for my family's dinner.

Today's Mail Online posted this article on the welfare of our Chickens destined for the large Supermarket shelves. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2585833/Revealed-How-supermarket-chicken-shrunk-millions-birds-suffering-worse-conditions.html

We have so much to answer for. Our demands are evidenced here in what the Chickens endure to satisfy those demands. Buy Farm Fresh Organic if you can.

Gladys
13-04-2014, 10:44 AM
The DM's reporting is often poor but in this case it is entirely accurate. It sent two under cover reporters posing as meat buyers to this Abattoir in Norfolk. Mr C has stated he has no intention of banning religious slaughter in the UK. Aside from that which I take exception to as he is making a blanket decision for the British Nation, I do feel very strongly that The BVA should be listened to and Defra should enforce better animal welfare in these places. Start with Supervision of the slaughtermen and a post stun after cut regime. Then we can look more closely at the scientific evidence of pain.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2603360/Horror-halal-slaughterhouse-Shocking-undercover-film-shows-needless-suffering-livestock-butchered-without-stunned-first.html

Gladys
13-04-2014, 09:45 PM
If you want welfare to be upgraded and have a real awareness of how welfare is poor now- please sign this e-petiton. Not only that- share it on Facebook and Twitter. https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/63193/signature/new

If you know farmers and people with livestock- show them this and ask them to make sure their animals don't get dispatched this way. Ask them to find out where their animals go and how they go.

Gladys
30-04-2014, 12:31 PM
Subway are now joining in with the push to eat only Halal meat. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616576/Subway-removes-ham-pork-nearly-200-stores-strong-demand-Muslims-eat-Halal-meat.html I won't be going to them again; I've only ever been once anyway. This does it for me and further more, I understand that the Burger Chains buy meat from companies that do Halal and Kosher slaughter aiming to be more user friendly. These Burger chains use up the 3/4 left from Kosher beef carcasses because only the forefront of the beast is accepted in a strict Jewish diet. I like many just want to eat meat that is killed in a humane way, why aren't food manufacturers attending to that need first?

rebbonk
30-04-2014, 03:24 PM
It's all down to profit Gladys.

I hope it all backfires on them. I won't use any establishment that uses or encourages these barbaric ways of slaughter. Of course, the assumption is that I can actually find out beforehand.

Gladys
30-04-2014, 04:09 PM
Well, the article says the Halal meat Subway uses is stunned pre cut. That is something at least but why remove pork from its entire range? People who don't eat pork need not. The Company could just ensure pork products are put together in a separate area to the other meat products. That makes more sense to me. Unless it is a Muslim owned outfit of course? Oh and while I'm on this, I wonder if the Company will label their products as Halal?

Shizara
01-05-2014, 06:18 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616576/Subway-removes-ham-pork-nearly-200-stores-strong-demand-Muslims-eat-Halal-meat.html

rebbonk
01-05-2014, 08:43 PM
Yet again, the majority are 'punished' for the sake of the minorities.

If I don't like something, I avoid it. Perhaps these minority groups ought behave the same way? - Oh sorry, that's the English way; behaving that way living in England would never do would it?

Gladys
02-05-2014, 10:21 AM
ENGLAND- where is that? From memory it was a small country with strong values built from historical origins that were inbuilt to its countrymen and their kin and it used to hold the respect of the entire world. Indeed, the rest of the world used to want to emulate it. No wonder I am struggling to remember where it is!

rebbonk
02-05-2014, 10:32 AM
...the rest of the world used to want to emulate it.

Nowadays they seem to want to destroy it! Politics of envy I reckon!

Lex
02-05-2014, 10:37 AM
I think this is why UKIP is becoming so popular - a lot of people are feeling threatened that their way of life is being sidelined. I've even caught myself thinking about voting for them, even though I see UKIP as a bunch of publicity grabbing eejits.

rebbonk
02-05-2014, 10:43 AM
I see a distinct parallel between Nigel Farage and Adolf Hitler. Both charismatic, both opportunists, both there at the right time. We know what happened under Hitler...

BTW, I'm not the only one that has noticed similarities between the UK today and Germany in the early 30's.

Gladys
02-05-2014, 12:29 PM
Its very worrying all round. I hadn't seen the parallel until you mentioned it, Rebbonk. I am not the brightest on the planet and politics is definitely not my strong point but you do seem to have a very poignant point on that.

Lex
02-05-2014, 01:27 PM
I was watching part of a programme about the rise of the Japanese empire in the 1930s last night, and it's scary how similar a lot of what is being said now was being said by the Japanese leadership back then.

rebbonk
02-05-2014, 03:42 PM
Something Mr F and UKIP would rather you didn't see...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/t1.0-9/10330224_640722096020069_4318023261317772871_n.jpg

I know we all did daft things when young....

rebbonk
02-05-2014, 04:18 PM
Apparently the above picture is a fake. I'll leave it there though as I quite like it...

Lex
02-05-2014, 04:21 PM
Another few points on the idiot tally......

Gladys
07-05-2014, 10:55 AM
And so it goes on and on. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622052/Pizza-Express-reveal-chicken-use-halal-dont-tell-customers-unless-ask-staff.html

So that's Subway, Pizza Express and I believe also Macdonald's and Burger King. It really is time we are told exactly how our meat is prepared from its beginning to the end. Informed choice is what I ask for not sly marketing with untold truths.Packaging needs clear labels and brands need to come clean.

rebbonk
07-05-2014, 11:43 AM
Packaging needs clear labels and brands need to come clean.

Oddly enough, that is one thing the EU is keen on.

But, where there's a will to deceive the public (for whatever reason) sharp practice will prevail.

Gladys
07-05-2014, 11:55 AM
If Denmark and Poland can take a stand against these methods of inhumane slaughter by banning them, why can't we? They decided animal welfare should come before religious beliefs. I speak for my self in that I believe this may be where we as a nation are going wrong. As omnipotent in the pecking order we put all peoples' belief systems and religions above the value of compassionate care. It would be more intelligent to base a decision on scientific fact than on a belief system that has never been challenged through the years up to now.

rebbonk
07-05-2014, 03:18 PM
It's the minorities Gladys, can't go upsetting them can we? Oddly enough, I thought we were [laughs] living in a democracy where the majority had their way invoked.

Gladys
07-05-2014, 04:41 PM
Rebbonk, the picture seems to be one of a minority that is becoming a majority that is quietly taking over. I was looking at the FSA stuff on meat production and standards. It really is very loose and the front page of their legislative web site actually states that they are advisory and that unless it is set in law, then producers do not have to follow the advice or words to that effect. I find that shocking on many levels because the FSA are getting paid from the public purse to do what? They also say that humane treatment of animals is set in law but then they manage to slide off that with the topic of religious slaughter which is accepted. Mr C stated in Denmark ( I think) he would not oppose the continuation of this practice in the UK and in fact supports it for those whose religious beliefs require it. Just who is he to speak for me and others who would rather see humane practice before religious belief? That to me would put a bit more ' Great ' back into the British nation.

rebbonk
07-05-2014, 05:05 PM
None of the politicians have the spine to stand up and be counted, lest they be called racist or it costs them votes. In fact, even the RSPCA are remarkably silent on this particular issue.

Gladys
07-05-2014, 06:03 PM
Yes but at least the Chief vet for the BVA has stood up and spoken out about it. Its time to step up the action against it but how?

Lex
07-05-2014, 08:59 PM
Yes but at least the Chief vet for the BVA has stood up and spoken out about it. Its time to step up the action against it but how?

I've added some tags to the thread. And of course, getting other people to discuss the issue is a good start to getting things changed - if you know anyone who has a view on this issue, invite them along to WOL!

Gladys
08-05-2014, 10:39 AM
Thanks Lex and Yes, anyone having a read of this, please comment either for or against. Let's have other peoples' stance on this. I seem to bang on about my view which is clear and I am pleased to see this in today's DM.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622830/Millions-eating-halal-food-without-knowing-How-big-brand-shops-restaurants-sell-ritually-slaughtered-meat-dont-label-it.html

Halal slaughter is now Britain's default method of meat production. Attempts to make it more humane with pre-stunning are now being put in place in the majority of abattoirs but not all. I am shouting for clear labels on the super market shelves and the freedom to make an informed choice. As things are now, there is none of that. Sign the BVA's e-petition. They need over 100,000 votes to get a hearing in parliament on this. I'll find it and add it to this post.http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64331

Its amazing- since asking how to raise the profile of this issue, its on National TV and the deputy Prime Minister is calling for these actions on clear labeling. Mr C however, is reported to have stated he isn't getting involved and thinks it should be between retailers, their providers and their customers. Typical of him- side step, dodge it and walk away.

Gladys
09-05-2014, 08:51 AM
Well, How do the retailers know that their customers don't care if the meat is halal or not? The e-petition is showing 35,907 signatures this morning against the 23000+ yesterday lunch time. It matters to me and to some of you. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2623805/Our-shoppers-dont-care-meat-halal-claim-supermarkets-Retailers-face-backlash-saying-unnecessary-label-meats.html

Further more, the other issue which is side left to this one but closely aligned is the fact that schools are joining force in this default for halal food and non- pork products for their school meals. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2623860/Now-halal-sneaks-schools-Parents-angered-councils-ban-pork-sausages-bacon-replace-ritually-slaughtered-meat.html My solution would be that the default should be humanely slaughtered meat at all times, if a child's faith dictates no pork products then don't eat them. Simple.

What a sensible man Dr Taj Hargey is. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html He has clarified things for me- Hadith Islam Fundamentalists who are exploiting the ignorance of the consumer both Muslim and non Muslim. It is about profit.

Gladys
09-05-2014, 11:17 PM
The e-petition stands at 41,107 signatures just now at 0015 on 10th May. Please sign and share on your Facebook, Twitter and email accounts with friends and family.http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64331

rebbonk
10-05-2014, 10:28 AM
I've signed up, but doubt it'll do much good; I don't know how the twerp from No.10 stands up, he's got no spine!

Lex
10-05-2014, 01:47 PM
I've signed too!

Gladys
10-05-2014, 03:41 PM
Thanks Guys, Please ask your loved ones, friends etc to do the same and to pass it on via Facebook , Twitter etc. You just never know, it might actually get heard in Parliament. We are supposed to be a nation of animal lovers after all. Compassion in the welfare of those destined for the table doesn't mean we all have to become vegans/vegetarians etc.

Oh I forgot to say, the ignorant consumers who have been exploited by Hadith Islam Fundamentalists includes those very high profile ones in No 10. At our expense as well. They or one in particular thinks he knows however he needs to speak with Dr Hargey and be enlightened. I wish this would happen and the RSPCA should join them too.

Gladys
12-05-2014, 10:58 AM
The e-petition stands at 47,258 signatures this morning. Please keep it going and raise its profile to all you know. Mr Philip Lymbery, CEO of Compassion in World farming spoke about this issue on ITV's Good Morning Britain program on Friday. I didn't see him as I don't watch that program. Did anyone else?

Todays' DM is saying this. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2626032/Asda-Sainsburys-Tesco-sell-halal-meat-live-kill-animals-not-stunned.html

Just what is the actual truth and will they ever come clean and inform the public with clarity?

Gladys
16-05-2014, 05:11 PM
The extent of this just gets worse http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2630421/Top-British-universities-including-Oxford-Manchester-secretly-serve-Halal-meat-unknowing-students.html

Still there is no response from the Cabinet Office. With 57,816 signatures to date, it is looking hopeful that a hearing will happen. Now do they really believe the public ' don't care ' if their meat is halal or otherwise?

rebbonk
16-05-2014, 09:00 PM
Sadly Gladys, that is a very poor representation from the number of adults within this country.

We need to get more organised and give the politicians grief, as many of these whining minority groups do. We need to exploit and use democracy properly, just as they do.

Unfortunately, the average Brit is lazy and doesn't care less as long as he has his fags, booze, reality TV and football. - On that basis, we deserve much of what we get.

We fought for democracy, but we can't be bothered to use it. I'd imprison non voters!

Gladys
17-05-2014, 10:38 AM
Yes, I know its a very small sample but these e-petitions only need 100,000 to gain merit for a hearing. Its now 58,121 just now so seems to be rising steadily by the day. Press on and spread the word to friends and family; don't be apathetic but be pro-active and fight for it. As for voting Rebbonk, I am totally confused as to which lot to vote for. Mr C and his party don't seem to be cutting the mustard and his stance on this very topic dismays me, Mr Clegg's lot are responsible for the debacle now operating within the NHS and leaving it in such a state, Mr Farage seems to have an all together different agenda which I fear may be hidden regarding immigration and immigrants. Remember that Polish soldiers helped us to fight in both World wars and as shown by Prince Harry's ceremonial salute in Estonia today, so did Estonia help us. These are but a few examples. Racism is the danger with UKIP I fear but please correct me if I am wrong. Now, where do you start with finding a party that is actually going to do the good it purports in its manifesto?

Gladys
08-06-2014, 09:23 AM
Dismay, dismay- Hadith Islam Fundamentalism again!!! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651779/Bid-end-suffering-chickens-blocked-Muslims-complain-undermine-rights-slaughter-birds-according-Islamic-rituals.html Dr Taj Hargey needs a loud speaker so his sensible knowledge is heard in London. The E-Petition stands at 66,111 this morning. Again, tell friends and family (if they haven't already) to sign it and to pass it on.

rebbonk
08-06-2014, 11:27 AM
Yet more bleating and whining... But they get their way! It really is time for us to adopt their tactics and use the powers that we can.

Daily Mail - So it must be true, even though they've banned me! (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651779/Bid-end-suffering-chickens-blocked-Muslims-complain-undermine-rights-slaughter-birds-according-Islamic-rituals.html)

Gladys
08-06-2014, 12:51 PM
Rebbonk, what powers though? Our public voice goes unlistened to. All I can think of is bombarding the supermarket retailers with demands to label meat showing how it is killed so that we can make an informed decision.

rebbonk
08-06-2014, 01:56 PM
We have exactly the same methods and tools at our disposal as they do. They are just far more effective at generating interest in their own communities and of rallying the troops. As I've said before, as long as most of the UK has soaps, cigges, beer, reality TV and football, they don't give a stuff.

Imagine what would happen if one whole estate agreed to boycott the local supermarket unless they complied with their wishes? Do you think that'd make the news and others would join in? Sadly, as a race, the indigenous Brit has lost the community spirit and that of supporting his fellow man.

rebbonk
08-06-2014, 02:01 PM
Adding on to that Gladys, I think we've become a very selfish race of people and in many instances we are getting exactly what we deserve. In many ways I blame Thatcher, but to be fair, I can trace a lot back to the early 60s and some a bit earlier, possibly as far as just after the war.

Gladys
10-06-2014, 02:57 PM
This is today's latest- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653689/Farmed-fish-stunned-like-cattle-slaughter-deserve-good-life-says-government-welfare-body.html

A Government body except that the Government Head- Mr C isn't interested in humane slaughter of anything.

rebbonk
10-06-2014, 04:32 PM
I'm afraid that I believe Camoron is only interested in himself and what he can get out of things. I can't see him remaining in place ater the next general election, and I doubt the historians will be particularly kind to him.

He was elected on so many hopes and promises, but has delivered so little.

Gladys
11-06-2014, 06:50 AM
I'm afraid I have to agree with you Rebbonk. This mornings email brought a response to the E-Petition. Anyone who signed it should have got one too. It basically says the Government (Mr C) has no intention on stopping non stun slaughter. He has ' religiousised ' his reasons for stating this. In my view it should have nothing to do with religious beliefs but all to do with treating animals with humanity in life and at death. The response does go on to say if they signatures exceed 100,000 it will get an airing on the back benches. If you haven't already, please do two things- read what Dr Hargey says about what Halal actually means without Hadith Fundamentalism .

See this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2623879/We-Muslims-appalled-sale-halal-meat-stealth.html and please sign the e-petition which this morning stands at 66,635 signatures so again tell friends and family and if you use Facebook or Twitter add it to those.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64331

rebbonk
11-06-2014, 08:47 AM
I haven't had that response Gladys. - Strange?

Gladys
11-06-2014, 05:28 PM
How very strange indeed. Hopefully it is due to the volume of respondents and if so you should get one in the next few days. In any case, you signed it but did you ' activate ' the signature which is done by clicking the link sent to your email address as a confirmation email? If not sign it again and wait for that email to come through.

rebbonk
11-06-2014, 05:37 PM
It was all done properly Gladys. If it takes them that long to bulk email 66,000 people the system must be useless.

Gladys
13-06-2014, 12:10 AM
What is even more strange is the E-Petition for public holidays for Diwali and Ede- Those are getting the airing that this should as well. I am thinking how do we get an enquirie going into slaughter house practices because on the Dog Fighting program on Channel 4 tonight, it finished showing a slaughter man having killed a pig, or at least cut its throat,(you could see its legs kicking in the high fore ground as it was strung up), he was sharpening his knife, stood in a pool of blood and the next poor victim was stood waiting looking terrified? If Pork is not allowed for Kosher or Muslim food- why were these pigs being killed in this way and having their throats cut? It demonstrates the default slaughter method for the UK Now.There was no facility for them not seeing what was being done to the one before . This is a fundamental issue of humane slaughter that the one being done isn't seen by his or her brother, mother, sister, aunt, uncle, niece or nephew. You get my drift.They should be rendered senseless as sentient beings. Mr C is using the ' Hide ' of religion to ignore the need. I really want to do something about this but don't know what or how to do it. Any ideas, any one? Can't look at this but I should; can you? Its only really recent.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDu_yUM8sMo I spoke to the wife of a farmer yesterday, she said her Husband hates taking his beef cattle to the Abattoir and doesn't watch their end because he can't deal with it. All I said to her was just make sure he makes sure they are treated with calm, compassion and are stunned. She said she would but I actually think it is a subject she isn't able to voice but who knows maybe!

Just see this - it should be about welfare not religion , nor supermarket profit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAQJ-FZo1cA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAQJ-FZo1cA

Gladys
13-06-2014, 09:34 AM
Its every where http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2656460/Soldiers-secretly-fed-halal-food-Ministry-Defence-admits-doesnt-label-meat-UK-overseas-bases.html

When they said that Halal meat production is obtained by the default slaughter method for the UK, they really meant it.

Gladys
19-06-2014, 12:26 AM
Please listen to this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL3IdyxN5ic The Jewish , Islam and BVA ' Big wigs ' opinions. A debate. You decide but please vote.

Lex
19-06-2014, 04:44 PM
A related subject: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27866293
FSA staff (who we expect to know what they're talking about) say this could put peoples' health at risk; FSA management (who may or may not know what they're talking about, but generally have to toe the line regardless) say there are no potential health concerns.

Gladys
20-06-2014, 12:03 AM
Lex, I think they've known about this for several months if not years. If you note recent health dietary advice about the dangers of eating pies and sausages , it tells me they were trying to avoid a mass hysteria back then hoping we'd all stop eating it. Perhaps this truth telling is to avoid exposure by under cover media again which has gone wrong? Anyway, I had an interesting event which I am hoping will lead to bigger things. (Little old me-Ha!) I bought two British Beef Steaks at Tescos on Monday and cooked them last night. We were looking forward to steak, salad and jersey royal potatoes. Yum thought.The steaks looked great- juicy, thick, not full of fatty veins but just the right amount of fat around the tops as a sirloin or rump would normally look like.All cooked , rested I served it all up. Well, I didn't have a saw to hand but that is what was needed. I gave up after 2-3 gos. Mr G, carried on as he was starving but after half way, he did too , breathless from effort and frustration, he couldn't try anymore. It was awful.

With that I went online to complain to Tescos. I received a very in depth reply this afternoon which offered me a refund on the price but also asked me to supply the bar code info as they want to look into the actual animal's end and the practices at the abattoir that dispatched it. I have sent them a long missive with the links on this thread especially what Dr Hargey explains Halal actually means. I was going to copy and paste the entire communication here but have spared you.Let's see what comes back. I note that the E-Petition stands at 69,730 signatures now and still has 9 Months to go so hopefully it will get a due hearing. In the mean time , Mr C needs to be ' educated ' on what actually happens and needs to be made welfare aware. ( Fat hope and Big Ask that one- he can't seem to be aware or welfare minded re his British populace! I nearly said 'subjects' Subliminal slip!!!)

rebbonk
20-06-2014, 08:35 AM
Gladys,

I find Tesco do react to customer complaints (at least on the surface!). How far they will deleve into a suppliers practices I don't know. At one time I just used to put poor product down to bad luck, but now I have the time, I complain when things aren't right. Believe me, you very quickly get a feel of just how much a company values its customers.

As for educating the fool from No.10, forget it. Eton tried! The man is beyond redemption. I actually think he's a bit dim and lacking common sense. I certainly don't believe he would be where he is if it wasn't for his family connections.

Shizara
20-06-2014, 07:50 PM
Some companies know how to respond to retain a customer. Others don't appear to care - the win a few, lose a few philosophy.

Even though there should be procedures in place to prevent it things can go wrong during production/manufacture. But the supplier needs to deal with it in a right and proper manner. Customers shouldn't feel like they are being a nuisance for wishing to return a product that doesn't say what it says on the tin, nor should they have to jump through hoops to get the right response from the company concerned.

Gladys
20-06-2014, 11:39 PM
Shizara, you are so very right. I submitted my response and thought I'd receive a reply today and remember in response to their request to do so with specific info; nothing happened. They want me to search through the filthy bin bag to retrieve the bar code confirmation which I am prepared to do but as they haven't replied to some basic questions they asked, I'll wait until Monday. I have the two wooden steaks and have offered them back. (Tongue in cheek by ' click and collect'- no answer) I aim to bombard them now.

rebbonk
21-06-2014, 08:29 AM
IIRC Tesco aim for 24 hours response. In my experience they often miss that.

One company that I complained to hadn't responded after several weeks, so I gave them a gentle reminder. They apologised and told me an answer would be put in the post that day. Next day, they told me a compensatory package had also been posted. I recieved the package, but not the letter. Unfortunately, it was the letter that I was actually interested in, as I was interested as to how their process could have let them down.

Ho hum...

Keep up the pressure Gladys, you know you're in the right.

Gladys
22-06-2014, 12:12 PM
Well, its two days since the promise of attention to my complaint. I know the weekend is in the way and I did have to retrieve the packaging to provide the bar code info which I did this morning, However, they didn't respond to my offer of the steaks to be returned. Let's see what tomorrow brings with regards to a response now they have the information to trace the meat.

Well, If I was wearing a hat, then I'd have to eat it. Tesco just replied. I am to receive a refund and Yes, I can take the cooked steaks to the shop if I wish. They also say that ALL animals killed for Tescos ( whether for halal or non Halal) consumers are stunned prior to slaughter. This includes the NZ Lamb imported and they imply this includes the Kosher meat. I have asked them to clarify this last point especially and asked if Tesco is making a stand against the practice where other Supermarkets are not. Let's see what comes through next. I am glad I have put these matters to them but think they need to label the meat as such.

Lex
22-06-2014, 08:46 PM
That's great news Gladys!

Gladys
22-06-2014, 10:57 PM
If he's telling me the truth , Yes it is. My next question is to ask why they aren't labeling the packaging to say.

rebbonk
23-06-2014, 10:34 AM
If he's telling me the truth , Yes it is.
Might be a good idea for someone else to ask the same question and compare answers. Often customer care agents are advised to tell the customer just what he wants to hear. Should the information given subsequently be identified as being incorrect, the agent is advised to blame it on a misunderstanding with his superviser.


My next question is to ask why they aren't labeling the packaging to say.
The answer to that will be quite telling, but I'll guess that it'll be along the lines of there is no legislation to, and that they don't want to confuse the customers even further by adding yet more detail to an already overcrowded label.

Gladys
23-06-2014, 02:19 PM
Rebbonk, this is an excellent idea. Is anyone here willing to give it a go? You'll have to buy a piece of their British pre-packed steak and retain all the info on the barcode and price box though. As for the labeling issue- I don't see that happening fast because there isn't any requirement to do so as you say. However, I am still waiting to hear about my question re: the Kosher meat prep process. So far- nothing.

Gladys
26-06-2014, 05:30 PM
Reply this afternoon but no mention of the Kosher question. They are refunding me 10 which is very generous seeing the steaks were about 4 something. They say they have notified the supplier too.

rebbonk
26-06-2014, 08:47 PM
Gladys, my experience is that what they have done is a placatory gesture. I doubt they will raise things with the supplier. In the past I have asked for evidence of this, suddenly the emails stop!

It pains me to say that Tesco are one of the better ones when it comes down to customer complaints, but they seem to think they can buy off customers very cheaply.

Like you, I have had 'generous' refunds, but I find that they get less generous the more you complain!

I do wonder how long it will be before they identify me as a vexatious complainer, or simply decide to ignore me.

Gladys
26-06-2014, 10:04 PM
Ha, Rebbonk, I am likely to be labeled as such too. Although, this reply Thanked me for telling them as quality is what they aim for and if they don't know, they can't address. Hence, I am invited to tell them about any issue I may have with their produce and service etc.( The staff at my local shop hadn't got a clue about the complaints procedure this person at the end of the email trail asked me to follow.- He was apologetic to the point I could imagine him on his bended knee. I am sure this shop will get 'training ' in the very near future!) I will leave a suitable space before I launch the question about labels.

Gladys
08-08-2014, 10:22 AM
This is the latest on humane meat production. I can't eat lobster because their deaths are all too often inhumane but this seems the right way to go as long as it is legislated and thus officially monitored. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2719544/How-kill-lobster-not-feel-guilty-Barrister-invents-Crustastun-machine-electrocutes-death-110-volt-shock.html

Gladys
31-08-2014, 11:51 PM
http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64331 74,601- Come on People- step it up./ Its nearly there.

Gladys
30-01-2015, 05:28 PM
Well- the e-Petition now stands at 103,192 signatures. Please tell more friends and family to sign it because Dave has spoken for me and for you which if you are against the ban on non stun slaughter may be OK- it isn't for me. He has issued a statement saying there will not be any such ban on religious slaughter methods. I am not talking about religion and nor is the e-petition. It is talking about welfare and the very real fact the sentient beings we eat should be treated with a humane, stress free end. Today's DM article on the subject links to the e-petition with a response to the signatures having reached the requisite 100,000. The Government department responsible is saying whilst the PM says there will not be a ban , it goes on to say they are looking at labeling meat clearly for customers to make an informed choice. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2932463/Millions-animals-slaughtered-halal-food-Numbers-rise-60-cent-amid-calls-stunned-death.html