Government passing new laws - how?

[Gladys]

Hi All,

I have asked on another thread how they got the Smoking Law passed? To enable more general chat about how they are working I have started this one. It kicks into a discussion we as friends were having last night about this fact and others. One is also the Hunting ban which to all intent and purpose is being flauted regularly. It was the most badly thought out Blair fuelled misnomer but it got passed. The final word has to come from The House of Lords- most of whom hunt, so how? Whether you are fore or against smoking or hunting isn't my question. Its the fundemental elements of our so called democratic society which are being slowly and insidiously weakened.

Now they are looking at reforming the House of Lords to elected life long peers, this is a direct move to change our constitution and take control over our rights for ever. Has communism / dictatorship come to us in sheeps clothing?

[rebbonk]

If you read Edwina Curry's A Parliamentary Affair I think it might give you an idea of just what goes on.

Having been involved in companies and committees over the years it's all the same. You want something from me, I want something from you. - We'll trade. If we cant trade, we'll bully, threaten and blackmail.

[Gladys]

Thanks Rebbonk- but what can we do about it? I have an inbuilt major issue with bullies. Surely, we must not allow them to carry on like they are? We are being railroaded into so many laws about this and taxes for that to the point we are no longer in charge of our selves.

[cathidaw]

you're right Gladys,
as I too said in the smoking thread 'they' are after our rights
,and also
I do believe there is a conspiracy
going on--your sheeps clothing remark , it's insidious and I dont know how we can fight it.
When I've talked about 'conspiracy before -not on wol-- I'm looked at with indulgence!
"she must be a crank" (i KNOW WHAT THEY ARE THINKING)

i WONT BE HERE FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS.
.
Hi All,

I have asked on another thread how they got the Smoking Law passed? To enable more general chat about how they are working I have started this one. It kicks into a discussion we as friends were having last night about this fact and others. One is also the Hunting ban which to all intent and purpose is being flauted regularly. It was the most badly thought out Blair fuelled misnomer but it got passed. The final word has to come from The House of Lords- most of whom hunt, so how? Whether you are fore or against smoking or hunting isn't my question. Its the fundemental elements of our so called democratic society which are being slowly and insidiously weakened.

Now they are looking at reforming the House of Lords to elected life long peers, this is a direct move to change our constitution and take control over our rights for ever. Has communism / dictatorship come to us in sheeps clothing?

[rebbonk]

You are most certainly not a crank. Those that refuse to open their eyes and see just what's going on are the cranks. We have walked blindly into the situation whereby our politicians are largely unaccountable and do what the hell they like with us and our country. As long as the average voter has booze, fags, and access to the TV they are content. It is this complacency that has helped the situation to arise.

I tend to hold extreme political views (don't worry, I won't push them on WOL) and whenever I come across a politician (rare) I'm always ready to have a go at them. One of my cousins stood for parliament, and you've never met such a pompous self-aggrandising fool in your life.

I really believe that the people of the UK have gotten what they deserve. As regards what to do about it, the only way I see is some sort of revolution or campaign of civil disobedience.

[Gladys]

Gun Powder plot I think is what I have said before on another thread. A Camapaign of Civil Disobedience- great where, how and when do we start? I'm up for it. I've just about had enough of this lot.

Actually- who do you replace them with? That's the worry. They come in with this and that promise but they don't mean a jot of it. They all have their own agendas. I wish some one genuine would turn up but would we recognise them if they did?

[rebbonk]

Well, I guess that you're a law abiding citizen so you'd find things a little uncomfortable. Try looking at the "lawful rebellion" or "freemen" sites. But do be careful, there's a lot of dross and misinformation about.

A couple of sites that I've learned a lot from (After a lot more research) - Mods, if you think these inappropriate please feel free to remove them.

http://www.fmotl.com - leading to http://www.fmotl.com/forum/index.php

http://www.tpuc.org - leading to http://www.tpuc.org/forum/

Expect the cranks, expect the outlandish little green men theories but look behind these. By the way, there are some true horror stories on those pages.

Knowing who actually has what power is a great start.

Oh, and I don't agree with the police baiting that these sites seem to incite. I respect the boys in blue most of the time.

[Gladys]

Rebbonk, Yes, I believe I am a law abiding citizen in as much as on balance I do unto others as I would have done unto me. I also respect the police in the main although I have observed some more than jobs worth ones whose grey matter is definitley challenged but then that can apply to any of us with 2 legs who walk upright. They actually have very little if no power and whilst I wouldn't want them to wield a stick of power as this is where the LAW comes in and what an aRRIS that can be, they are a symbol of moderation to civil order. That's it really but increasingly, they are being used in ways that are entirely inappropriate.

[Gladys]

Reformation of The house of Lords - its being debated heavily having had the Bill for reform failed in the last 2 days. They are going to try another tack to achieve the same. My view point is as it is a fundemental part of our constitution, it shouldn't be meddled with. I say this because all that is and was 'England' and now BRITISH has rapidly changed and not really for the better because of the Governments meddling. We are all very much dictated to on so many levels but the one thing that the last Government infiltrated as in The House of Lords and this Government with this attempt to further that aim, should be left with out further affliction to sit and judge on our ' Democratic ' votes to protect our land. Otherwise- we will have no protection what so ever. They will be ' elected ' into both Houses and our democracy will have been disolved. I may be missing a lot as I am not political but for some reason this is really stirring my fire. I do ask for any positive education any one wishes to offer. What say you?

[Lex]

Genarally, I'm in favour of the Upper House being elected, mostly because it scares the bejesus out of the members of the House of Commons. Mr Zahawi, Stratford's MP, is against it; in a speech he made to the commons - http://www.zahawi.com/viewblog.php?postID=91 - he claims thet the Senate will be full of career politicians and cronies. I thought it was already! The point about potential gridlock is a good one, though.
Nadim Zahawi seems a tad scared about giving the electorate a mandate to elect the people who lead them. We can't be having that now, can we. Our political and legal systems have evolved to prevent a 'tyranny of the masses' (ie mob rule), and new parties have arisen (ok, not all of them are very nice, but that's democracy for you) that address issues that the samey mian parties don't want to face head on.
Our system isn't perfect, and full of vested interests, but it could be a hell of a lot worse, and is in a lot of places. That's why our MP's family originally came to the UK!

[cathidaw]

I don't understand an lot of the politics of today, but when I first read of the bill to get rid of the house of lords, the hereditory Lords, I assumed it was because Tony Blair was jealous and could never be one- not an inherited one anyway.
Too simplistic I know but as I say I dont understand most of it.
I don't see how it can work-who will do the electing?
Whoever it is will be cronies of the same bunch who make laws now. A so- called independent committee will also be picked by these people , and it goes round .
rebbonk, I need educating too please!

[rebbonk]

I believe that money runs the country and that no matter how we vote we get more or less of the same.

As Lex says, what we have isn't perfect, but it's better than some countries.

I've just finished reading The Unlikely Spy. The UK government were quite prepared to see three totally innocent men go to prison in order to cover up its own "naughtiness". Several hundred people also lost their jobs as a direct result of the government action.

Make no mistake, the government machine is a dangerous one and one that should be treated with extreme caution. Far too often, we only find out what is going on after the event, announcements being hidden in obscure documents/speeches that we take little notice of. Hardly the action of an open and transparent government is it?

[Gladys]

Its all such a worry- a cousin (In Australia!)sent me this link- I had no idea it even existed but its worth noting so if you have a particular bete noir against something you can at least vote online against it.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

[rebbonk]

Gladys,

There's been a few reach the 100,000 mark that's supposed to render them debatable in "the house". But I don't believe that it's an absolute promise that it will happen.

Unfortunately, that site has the same old themes coming up again and again, each petition getting a few votes. If the petition creators would communicate with each other there'd be a whole lot more reaching to 100,000 mark.

These people are a little more coordinated http://www.38degrees.org.uk/

[cathidaw]

i'VE LOOKED AT BOTH OF THESE ADMIRABLE SITES BUT AM NOT CONVINCED 'THEY' READ THEM.
WE CAN BUT TRY !

[rebbonk]

i'VE LOOKED AT BOTH OF THESE ADMIRABLE SITES BUT AM NOT CONVINCED 'THEY' READ THEM.
WE CAN BUT TRY !

I think you're likely on the money with that. I've often said that if anything we proles did would make a real difference, we wouldn't be able to do it in the first place! I really do believe that it's just a case of throwing us a few scraps now and then to keep us happy.

Whilst slavery as we understand it (ball and chains, whips etc.) has been abolished, there are new ways being used (financial?) to enslave populations.

[Gladys]

Robbonk- you are right and Thanks for the link. Its all a bit of a sham from what I can tell. They are cowing down to being seen to be 'PC' by being seen to be fair in allowing a public voice and as Cathidaw says- do they actually review them? How many people know these sites exist- do they promote them? I think not. If you let too many people know about how they can stand against legislation and its makers it just might go wrong after all!

[cathidaw]

If anyone has read Robert Tressill's 'Ragged Trousered Philanthropist' they will realise that nothing has changed in government attitudes in all the hundred years or so since then and I have no reason to believe it will be any different in the future.
Money is king and always will be.

[rebbonk]

Money is king and always will be.

I quite agree.


"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce." — James A. Garfield, President of the United States

And it would appear that I'm not the only one.

[Gladys]

We're already nuked then. What's next with this wonderful lot who sit in judgement from their safe house?