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Gladys
13-06-2011, 11:07 PM
This is an extremely emotive subject but I am compelled to ask if anyone saw the Dignitas programme tonight? It has left me quite strangely numb. This is in as much that I don't yet know how to feel what they showed; a lovely man taking a poison and sitting beside his wife he breathed his last. It was calm and devoid of emotional sounds. I have seen many people die in hospitals and this was the strangest death yet. More so because this wonderfully brave man chose to drink the draft and die then. He could have said 'no' not yet but then when is the right time?I didn't see the part that told you what his illness was but I do know if I had a cancer for instance that would allow me to exsanguinate, I would go for this,I'm not sure about other situations. I guess it is dependant on if it is happening to you.Does any one have any thoughts - as hard as it may be but I do think medicine here has to review end of life care and this is may be a preferable option. (I don't want to hurt or offend anyone by posting this but iit has moved me- sorry if I have )

cathidaw
17-06-2011, 12:06 AM
You are right Gladys.
End of life care has to be discussed sometime and at great lengths, with the medical profession and the government.Importantly the general public must have their input.
.It is barbaric to allow great suffering when thereis no chance of survival. Of course there will be problems but theyhave to be thrashed out. It may take years but somewhere there will be a solution.To have to travel to another country to die by ones own hand,possibly earlier than necessary is inhuman because we haven't the rgiht to be able to say 'not yet'.
Most people who really need or want to die have not the option to choose between assisted death or a continuous half life of excruciating never ending pain and lack of dignity.
.

Shizara
18-06-2011, 10:14 PM
There are so many facets to this, but the one thing we need to be careful of is people being forced into that path, shamed into it or even emotionally blackmailed. People at this point in their lives have often put much into raising families, much into sacrificing so many things to give their families the best they possibly can. Are they being asked/told/coerced into the ultimate sacrifice before the inheritance is gone?

It is true, that some want to be able to leave this world at a time of their own choosing. Equally, with palliative care, some might choose to wait until the natural course of events complete this process.

The world is indeed becoming overpopulated, the numbers of elderly and infirm are increasing, especially with advancing years. Shouldn't dignity include care should they wish it, without them feeling like they ought to take the opt out for everyone's sake?

Much discussion and as cathidaw says, much thrashing out, needs to take place to ensure that the person facing their end of life has options without pressure from family, the medical profession or the government.

People have a right to life. I would hate to see a time come when people are deprived of the right to that life because of the inconvenience to family and others, however, I do understand that some do not want a life that has no quality to it whatsoever.

As I said at the outset, there are many facets to this and much to be considered.

Gladys
20-06-2011, 09:17 AM
As I said- it is an emotive subject. I don't think anyone could decide unless they are faced with being in the position of being terminaly illl and facing death. From that stance it must be even harder if you are a loved one who stands by your dearest and suffer the loneliness of watching on.This is whether they die as current convention has it or whether they choose to go to Switzerland and to die with help. It wouldn't be a choice they have made but one the dying person has done and thus to stand and support that decision is terrifying to me. How do you let go? Its hard enough as things are now but to have a controlled end in some ways is worse because when can you be ready to say 'Good bye'- almost never I would say but brave people do. I think this is what is striking about the situation with Dignitas- no one but the dying person has the right to choose. Their relatives have no say in the matter. If they support the decision they are there, if they don't they are simply absent. So other people making choices about life or death for an individual doesn't seem to feature. The medical input is simple- Its part of the job to prevent suffering- administering the poison which brings about the end is not part of the job. In the case shown- the man gave himself the potion- it wasn't forced on him and he was told quite clearly this drink will end your life and once you have drunk it you cannot change your mind because it acts straight away. He was directed to think carefully at that moment. Remember- he had been through much personal agony about it and had been through the rigorous counselling that Dignitas do before this end moment.He had simply had enough and wanted his end with him in control of it. This is in need of so much more input. It has so many threads to it. I could go on but I won't. Thanks for sharing what you have. I know it isn't an easy topic.

Gladys
12-02-2014, 02:58 PM
Well while we still deliberate on Euthanasia here and seem no further forward with it. We are far behind in the UK and as I learned this morning of my Cousin's Husband's death which was a long protracted awful end where he wasn't able to swallow for the last 3 weeks and required total care for the last 7 months, I am moved to wish we had a facility to choose. Look at what Belgium is now set to do.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2557555/Belgium-set-legalise-euthanasia-children-life-threatening-diseases.html

rebbonk
12-02-2014, 04:18 PM
Well, we don't let animals suffer do we?

In general, I'm all for this. However, I do have one very strong reservation: once we go down this road how long will it be before the decision to end a life is taken out of our or our loved one's hands and dictated by the state?

Gladys
12-02-2014, 11:48 PM
Mmm- I agree this is a definite problem. I guess tight legislation is the answer. The Swiss and the Belgians obviously have it ring fenced. It isn't beyond our comprehension nor our legal framework to make safeguards in similar ways surely?

rebbonk
13-02-2014, 10:34 AM
It isn't beyond our comprehension nor our legal framework to make safeguards in similar ways surely?

Having seen how UK legislation is twisted out of all context (think RIPA or anti terrorism laws) I have my doubts.

In the UK, an ageing population is seen as a financial burden on society. I wonder how long it would be before the law was just "tweaked" (slipped in amongst other legislation by one of our devious, lying, twisting politicians - Think IDS!) to allow the state to lay laws down as to someone living or dying?

As regards Switzerland and Belgium, I hope that they have a far more honest political class than we have.

Gladys
14-02-2014, 12:37 AM
The Belgium Government voted today and passed this legislation. They now have Euthanasia legal for ' ALL' That is no age boundaries. So their voting populace have felt sufficiently supported that they voted for it; where are we?