Smoking Law

[chillitt]

AS of 1st July 2007, smoking will be illegal in all manner of places. My shop being one of them. fair enough, I hear you say, as after all it would appear that it's bad for you...
No one has smoked in my shop for many years - its full of paint and flammable wood finishes. But now I am obliged by law to stick dirty great 'no smoking' posters on the door and all over the place. My shop is listed (2*) and I dont even have a mastercard/visa sticker on the door....

And now I have been sent a flyer from the council, inviting me to a 'roadshow' (one of four..) so I can;
Find out how the new law will affect my business and what I must do to comply (it won't we are all ready there)

Get essential information, advice and smoke free signs(its not essential, its a waste of time)

Hear from the experts how to use Smoke Freedom to benefit your business..
(experts in my business? thats me then..)



Hang on... 'Smoke Freedom'? Odd, I would have thought a better name for banning something could be found..

Whats the point of it all? Why use such an Owellian name for the exercise? Does anyone want these poxy stickers??

[Will]

Heh, that's a well spotted example of Orwellian 'Double-Speak' Chillit.

This is a typical example of the bureaucracy we live in; an utter waste of time and money. I bet it's costing us a small fortune to implement this as well. The higher the taxes, the more ingenious ways they find to spend it.

[Mari]

I'm not a smoker but I do sympathize with the ridiculous ban on smoking. I have seen no smoking signs in the daftest places, such as the church I attend, as if anyone ever sparks up in church. :coco:
Also, there is an increase in shop staff standing outside their various places of employment ,having a quick drag in their breaktime. I can't see why pubs and businesses could have a designated area/room for smokers.

Talking about smoking reminds of the days when smoking was allowed on buses, I forget the year it was banned, but when we went to Wales, I think it was 1995 ish, we boarded a double decker, sat upstairs for a nice view, and noticed a horrible stale smell of smoke, we looked back and there was somebody smoking.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJLkb5H0mI8

[Shizara]

I have seen no smoking signs in the daftest places, such as the church I attend, as if anyone ever sparks up in church.

I know someone who did....

As children, my sister and I were trundled off to our nearest church to attend Sunday school and were encouraged - I would say pressured - to stay for church. As you can imagine my sister and I were amongst the most regular attenders and there were few acceptable excuses that my father would accept for us not to go. We usually collected book prizes for attendance during an evening at the end of each year. On one such occasion my mother had a stole over her shoulders - turquoise with a lurex thread. We went in, sat down on one of the pews that lined an aisle. During the prize giving I was shocked, upset and embarrassed when, with one leg crossed over the other, out came the cigarettes and she lit up in the church. I didn't know what to do or where to look. Smoke wafted around. When she had finished she calmly stubbed the cigarette end out on the floor with her shoe. A vivid memory and one that still fills me with discomfort. Interestingly, my parents were not church goers by any stretch of the imagination, it was a way of getting rid of the kids to give them a few hours on their own. Of course, you don't put 2 and 2 together until you get older. As for smoking, neither my sister nor myself smoke and yet both parents were heavy smokers.

[Mari]

Was that in this country Shiz?

[Shizara]

No, I grew up in New Zealand. Some years later, when my sister and I were aged 12 and 11ish we moved to another area. My Dad searched out the nearest Sunday school and came across a Gospel Hall - a tad different to the Methodist. The attraction? LOL. They provided bus transport in the form of a pastel coloured bus to pick children up for Sunday school which meant he didn't need to take us and we couldn't use the excuse that it was too far to walk. On a bright note, nobody smoked in there!

Them's were the days.

[Gladys]

I am a smoker and I do think this hitches into the nanny state we have but I do respect those who choose not to want to suffer 2nd hand smoke etc. I certainly would not want children subjected to it. I just wish they would respect me and my clan who are made to feel like 2nd hand citizens. The Government reap the taxes from it, its legal to do so in Parliament, military messes and HM prisons- I think outlawing everyone else is just another rubbish law on many decent hard working folk who just enjoy a smoke and a pint or glass of wine to wrap up their often rubbish day earning not enough for doing more than enough to pay yet again more tax for doing so. Give choice back to the British Public.Enough of this 'Do as I say' regime.

[Shizara]

Whilst I am a non smoker I have no issue with considerate smokers but I want to pick up on the point that Gladys made:


The Government reap the taxes from it...

Has anyone thought about who would pick up the shortfall of tax if they outlawed smoking? Everyone's tax would go up and not just by the amount to cover the shortfall.

Smoking or not smoking needs to be a choice the individual makes. Years ago the morning and afternoon tea break in NZ and Australia was called "Smoko" which is basically a coffee/tea break and a ciggy. Whoever was on tea duty would make the huge pot of tea - with tea leaves - then when all was ready lean out of the kitchen door and call out "SMOKO!!!"

[Gladys]

Yes, Thanks Shizara, I wonder about this point too. Perhaps the pathetic and failed ' pasty ' tax was a shift towards what they are thinking may replace tax from tobacco products? They'll probably up the stakes on everything else- petrol, car, wine, beer, hike up food prices, add road tolls from county to county and squash any chance Mr and Mrs Average have any chance of making a living to what cause; to pay their taxes of course.

[cathidaw]

i HAD MY SUSPICIONS ABOUT THE 'PASTY' TAX-especially when they 'turned.Pretending they were considering 'us' hoping to lull us into considering 'them' a feeling government.
All it did was to make us suspicious of every new plot....(meaning new plan)
We are slowly moving back to Victorian ways, when only the very rich were able NOT to live from hand to mouth. When people out of work --because there were no jobs--were victimised by the state for having no job.
They wanted the proles to beg, which gave them the whip hand.
I have an aquaintance who was part of an accountants firm. Made redundent 2 years ago and cannot get another job in accountancy ,apparently ther are too many accountants for each new job. tried many others , most of which he was overqualified.
First he had to apply for a set number of jobs per week -and have proof. One Hitler at the centre said e.mails were not allowed letters only. when he complained due to time and cost, he found it wasn't in the rules.Just made up by the Hitler of the day who interviewed him.
Job center then said you must take anything or lose your dole.They sent him to a job in a garden centre which he took--for 3 weeks and now is on the dole again-with the family benefits.
His wage at the garden centre was minimum, which was less than the dole without benefits.
Maybe there's a lot more I dont know about this person, but---I have a friend who's daughter works as roving admin at various jobcentres. Listening to her talking about her job I feel sorry for those who have to use them if they all have her attitude towards the jobless. No sympathy and no heart.
I often wish -nastily- she would lose her job. Those people never do.

[Gladys]

Its draconian isn't it? I watched the tennis yesterday and looking through the crowds- none seemd to be hard up sorts. The PM was there with his Mother amongst others- Pippa with Kate etc, Mr and his Mrs unable to smile and very ever so self conscious Beckham. At £120 per ticket for those who got one through the public access, its a lot of money to fork out to spectate a national sporting event. Is this the same for the football match tickets at home? It is now a priviledged few who can afford to enjoy these events, the average Mr and Mrs Brit can barely afford the TV licence to watch it at home.

Cathidaw, the job centre lot and your friend's daughter sit in smug judgement at the direction of the rabble in Government who are so far removed from the reality of the misery they add to people's lives. Some people are wastes of space but most are decent hard working folk or would be if things were apportioned more appropriately. Has anyone heard about the graduate who has taken them to Court for just this sort of thing. She was sent to wok in a Pound shop or similar rather than her knowledge being invested in in placing her in a more appropriate job. She left the pound shop fast and took legal action. I wonder if Mr C would adjust to being sent to work on a factory production line if he lost his job?

Getting back to the Smoking Law- we had this discussion again last night at our local. How did they get this passed when the House of Lords passes the final word? Most of them are smokers.

[cathidaw]

gOOD EXPRESSION -mRS UNABLE TO SMILE-- MADE ME LAUGH.

[Gladys]

Nanny State- How are they going to police this? It was reported they are going to get Drs and Nurses to do the policing and will even give them power to threaten to Discharge patients from care if they smoke. Don't Drs and Nurses have enough to do and to police already- like good safe effective care and medicine for instance? Spend money on sorting the NHS out rather than more sniveling petty laws against the public.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2514107/Ban-smoking-grounds-hospitals-urged.html

[rebbonk]

I think we all know that smoking isn't the smartest thing to do, but I believe that as adults we should have the right to chose for ourselves. This smoking ban is responsible for the demise of many businesses and that wasn't envisaged when the law was passed.

If the whole of the UK stopped smoking tomorrow has anyone worked out the financial implications to HM treasury?

[Gladys]

Yes, Smoking isn't a healthy choice, neither is drinking alcohol, eating too much, obesity etc etc. However, it is a choice and we did vote for freedom of choice and freedom of speech. The lobby supporting these two facts did say that it would cost the government at least £12m( from memory so I may have the figure wrong but it was a huge sum) in revenue if a carpet ban was brought in against it. What would they legislate against then? I wonder- pasties again!

[Margaret]

Yes, we have freedom of choice to ignore health warnings , be it on packets or from our GP.
But I do think that doctors or consultants have a right to refuse to treat patients who are obese, or is suffering from Cirrhosis of the liver through drink and refuse to change their habits.
This reminds me of a very sad case when I worked in hospital of a patient who drank a bottle of wine a day and had no intentions of giving up, I think he was on a suicide mission. He was such a lovely person, but totally gave up after his business fell apart and wife left him. As Gladys will know with patients suffering with Cirrhosis of the liver, his death was quite distressing.

[Gladys]

Many addictions are overwhelming ( often but not always chemically) driven habitual obsessions. Whatever the addiction maybe. Without getting to the root cause of why and some people are more susceptible to become addicts than others. Adequate support is also another very important factor in helping a person to overcome their addiction. Any small chink in the amour will cause failure. Sadly, we seem to have more addictive opportunities than ever before with not just substance abuse (and there are umpteen new substances being used too) but internet access there are the gamboling addictions for example. These may not kill directly but they ruin lives and relationships in the same way.